This is about Bill Collum's story in Soaring, "New Sailplane
Material". I respect Bill's knowledge and enjoy reading his stories
in Soaring. In it he suggests a 50 Lb 15 meter glider will be
possible and I don't doubt it.

Certainly assembling it would be much easier, but to get reasonable
penetration, wouldn't it need water ballast? Now, many fly without
water but with a 50 Lb airframe, that wouldn't be an option. Every
flight would be 'wet' offsetting the ease of assembly with the water
filling hassle.

You might see an increase in the number of the 12 meter gliders but I
don't see many 12 meter gliders entered in 15 meter contests. No
matter how light, I don't think the performance is really there.

Ultimately, if you reduce the density of a glider to that of air, you
have a glider shaped balloon. What's the L/D of a balloon?

But think what could be done to the aspect ratio.....

Mark

I would add ballast in the form of more lithium polymer batteries, to
drive the electric sustainer motor.

Chris N

On Dec 28, 6:35*pm, Mark Jardini > wrote:
> But think what could be done to the aspect ratio.....
>
> Mark

Can you say "low Reynolds number?"
UH

On 12/28/2010 6:59 PM, wrote:
> On Dec 28, 6:35 pm, Mark > wrote:
>> But think what could be done to the aspect ratio.....
>>
>> Mark
>
> Can you say "low Reynolds number?"
> UH

Curable by speed! :-)

Clearly 'practical graphene' will require extensive, systemic thought (and
probably not a little new 'aereodynamic' research), but my nickel is on it
happening. After all, who can seriously imagine glider designers whining about
having a material so good it *hurts* their ability to improve performance
because it's too light?!?

Regards,
Bob W.

On Dec 28, 7:29*pm, Bob Whelan > wrote:
> On 12/28/2010 6:59 PM, wrote:
>
> > On Dec 28, 6:35 pm, Mark > *wrote:
> >> But think what could be done to the aspect ratio.....
>
> >> Mark
>
> > Can you say "low Reynolds number?"
> > UH
>
> Curable by speed! *:-)
>
> Clearly 'practical graphene' will require extensive, systemic thought (and
> probably not a little new 'aereodynamic' research), but my nickel is on it
> happening. After all, who can seriously imagine glider designers whining about
> having a material so good it *hurts* their ability to improve performance
> because it's too light?!?
>
> Regards,
> Bob W.

My bet would be designers will use the immense strength to eliminate
Va, Vb and Vne speeds. A glider would reach terminal velocity first.
A higher turbulence penetration speed would facilitate higher inter-
thermal speeds. It would be especially beneficial for high altitude,
long distance XC wave flights. Imagine a 300 knot low pass.

At the SSA Conference in PHL we're doing a session on Future
Composites and I'll be discussing the latest graphene and smart
materials technology. We are indeed approaching a tipping point where
nano-reinforcements and active materials will change the structural
paradigm, which in turn will drive aerodynamic advancements.

Bob

On Dec 29, 6:04*am, RL > wrote:
> At the SSA Conference in PHL we're doing a session on Future
> Composites and I'll be discussing the latest graphene and smart
> materials technology. We are indeed approaching a tipping point where
> nano-reinforcements and active materials will change the structural
> paradigm, which in turn will drive aerodynamic advancements.
>
> Bob

I'd be more concerned about vertical acceleration in turbulence and
cracking my head on the canopy if the glider were really this light.

1200 pounds gross is where I would like to be - it might be a
challenge to find space for 900 lbs of water ballast.

Mike

On Dec 29, 3:31*am, Anne > wrote:
> On Dec 29, 6:04*am, RL > wrote:
>
> > At the SSA Conference in PHL we're doing a session on Future
> > Composites and I'll be discussing the latest graphene and smart
> > materials technology. We are indeed approaching a tipping point where
> > nano-reinforcements and active materials will change the structural
> > paradigm, which in turn will drive aerodynamic advancements.
>
> > Bob
>
> I'd be more concerned about vertical acceleration in turbulence and
> cracking my head on the canopy if the glider were really this light.
>
> 1200 pounds gross is where I would like to be - it might be a
> challenge to find space for 900 lbs of water ballast.
>
> Mike

BTDT! Bashed the canopy OFF my Speed Astir with my cranium a couple
years ago!

On Dec 28, 5:21*pm, bildan > wrote:
> This is about Bill Collum's story in Soaring, "New Sailplane
> Material". *I respect Bill's knowledge and enjoy reading his stories
> in Soaring. *In it he suggests a 50 Lb 15 meter glider will be
> possible and I don't doubt it.
>
> Certainly assembling it would be much easier, but to get reasonable
> penetration, wouldn't it need water ballast? *Now, many fly without
> water but with a 50 Lb airframe, that wouldn't be an option. *Every
> flight would be 'wet' offsetting the ease of assembly with the water
> filling hassle.
>
> You might see an increase in the number of the 12 meter gliders but I
> don't see many 12 meter gliders entered in 15 meter contests. *No
> matter how light, I don't think the performance is really there.
>
> Ultimately, if you reduce the density of a glider to that of air, you
> have a glider shaped balloon. *What's the L/D of a balloon?

Hype, hype and more hype in Bill Collums story, pure vapor-ware.
Going from a single layer of graphene molecules to a structural part
is not around the corner - unless its the corner of some distant
galaxy. Remember buckyballs? We were going to have string materials
of unbelievable strenght, space elevators everywhere to get payloads
for pennies into orbit, surely a hazard to soaring activities.
In my uneducated view graphene is an oddity for materials researchers
to mull over and write papers, nothing to see here folks, move
along...

Herb, J7

>
> Hype, hype and more hype in Bill Collums story, pure vapor-ware.
> Going from a single layer of graphene molecules to a structural part
> is not around the corner - unless its the corner of some distant
> galaxy. *Remember buckyballs? *We were going to have string materials
> of unbelievable strenght, space elevators everywhere to get payloads
> for pennies into orbit, surely a hazard to soaring activities.
> In my uneducated view graphene is an oddity for materials researchers
> to mull over and write papers, nothing to see here folks, move
> along...
>
> Herb, J7

Like Herb said, and time for the monthly complaint about Snoaring
Magazine content. Graphene, and advice to use Lemon Pledge in the
centerpiece story about how to clean your canopy. (Hint. Don't) In the
meantime, nothing about how to fly better, what's going on with actual
glider designs we might see in our lifetimes, new instruments under
development, how to fly safer, racing techique, strategy, developments
around the world, new airfoils, modifications and improvements,
interesting places to fly or much else. If they just reprinted
articles from S&G, Gliding international, and other sources it would
be better.

OK, the answer is stop crabbing and write. I'll pony up a contest
corner if the rest of you send in some interesting articles!

John Cochrane

On 12/29/2010 2:22 PM, John Cochrane wrote:

>
> Like Herb said, and time for the monthly complaint about Snoaring
> Magazine content. Graphene, and advice to use Lemon Pledge in the
> centerpiece story about how to clean your canopy. (Hint. Don't) In the
> meantime, nothing about how to fly better, what's going on with actual
> glider designs we might see in our lifetimes, new instruments under
> development, how to fly safer, racing techique, strategy, developments
> around the world, new airfoils, modifications and improvements,
> interesting places to fly or much else. If they just reprinted
> articles from S&G, Gliding international, and other sources it would
> be better.
>
> OK, the answer is stop crabbing and write. I'll pony up a contest
> corner if the rest of you send in some interesting articles!
>
> John Cochrane


Well, in all fairness to the SSA members who never write anything, the
problem is with the way that the Board chose the new editor a few years
ago.

The editor of Soaring must be good at two things. First, he must have
wide contacts in the soaring community, and be interested in all the
various topics that John describes above. With that background, he can
approach people for the articles that make for an interesting magazine.

Second, the editor must know how to produce a magazine.

Ideally, the Board would have hired a part-time editor who was good at
the first, and a full-time assistant editor who was good at the second.
As a team, they could turn out a good magazine.

But instead the Board looked for a single person to do both jobs. Maybe
there are people out there who would be good at both, but the present
editor is not the right fellow. He probably is quite qualified at the
second job described above, but certainly not at the first.

On Dec 29, 3:22*pm, John Cochrane >
wrote:
> > Hype, hype and more hype in Bill Collums story, pure vapor-ware.
> > Going from a single layer of graphene molecules to a structural part
> > is not around the corner - unless its the corner of some distant
> > galaxy. *Remember buckyballs? *We were going to have string materials
> > of unbelievable strenght, space elevators everywhere to get payloads
> > for pennies into orbit, surely a hazard to soaring activities.
> > In my uneducated view graphene is an oddity for materials researchers
> > to mull over and write papers, nothing to see here folks, move
> > along...
>
> > Herb, J7
>
> Like Herb said, and time for the monthly complaint about Snoaring
> Magazine content. Graphene, and advice to use Lemon Pledge in the
> centerpiece story about how to clean your canopy. (Hint. Don't) In the
> meantime, nothing about how to fly better, what's going on with actual
> glider designs we might see in our lifetimes, new instruments under
> development, how to fly safer, racing techique, strategy, developments
> around the world, new airfoils, modifications and improvements,
> interesting places to fly or much else. If they just reprinted
> articles from S&G, Gliding international, and other sources it would
> be better.
>
> OK, the answer is stop crabbing and write. I'll pony up a contest
> corner if the rest of you send in some interesting articles!
>
> John Cochrane

I brought up the Pledge use with a plastics expert - he rolled his
eyes. There's something in Pledge - possibly the oderants - which
accelerates crazing. I've tried several waxing finish polishes for
canopies and the old standby McGuire's #10 (gray bottle) does the best
job of temporarily filling in scratches while protecting the canopy.
It should, it was designed for the USAAF in WW2 for exactly that
purpose with a refractive index exactly the same as acrylic.

Canopies are WAY too expensive to be experimenting with furniture
polish.

On Dec 28, 3:21*pm, bildan > wrote:
> In it he suggests a 50 Lb 15 meter glider will be
> possible and I don't doubt it.

Well, where's my hoverboard? My flying car?

On Dec 29, 4:10*pm, bildan > wrote:
> On Dec 29, 3:22*pm, John Cochrane >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Hype, hype and more hype in Bill Collums story, pure vapor-ware.
> > > Going from a single layer of graphene molecules to a structural part
> > > is not around the corner - unless its the corner of some distant
> > > galaxy. *Remember buckyballs? *We were going to have string materials
> > > of unbelievable strenght, space elevators everywhere to get payloads
> > > for pennies into orbit, surely a hazard to soaring activities.
> > > In my uneducated view graphene is an oddity for materials researchers
> > > to mull over and write papers, nothing to see here folks, move
> > > along...
>
> > > Herb, J7
>
> > Like Herb said, and time for the monthly complaint about Snoaring
> > Magazine content. Graphene, and advice to use Lemon Pledge in the
> > centerpiece story about how to clean your canopy. (Hint. Don't) In the
> > meantime, nothing about how to fly better, what's going on with actual
> > glider designs we might see in our lifetimes, new instruments under
> > development, how to fly safer, racing techique, strategy, developments
> > around the world, new airfoils, modifications and improvements,
> > interesting places to fly or much else. If they just reprinted
> > articles from S&G, Gliding international, and other sources it would
> > be better.
>
> > OK, the answer is stop crabbing and write. I'll pony up a contest
> > corner if the rest of you send in some interesting articles!
>
> > John Cochrane
>
> I brought up the Pledge use with a plastics expert - he rolled his
> eyes. *There's something in Pledge - possibly the oderants - which
> accelerates crazing. *I've tried several waxing finish polishes for
> canopies and the old standby McGuire's #10 (gray bottle) does the best
> job of temporarily filling in scratches while protecting the canopy.
> It should, it was designed for the USAAF in WW2 for exactly that
> purpose with a refractive index exactly the same as acrylic.
>
> Canopies are WAY too expensive to be experimenting with furniture
> polish.

At the risk of hijacking the topic, is McGuires #10 better than
Plexus? (I just bought two cans at $23 each. (The guy at the airport
shop said the manufacturer recently doubled the wholesale price.)

On Dec 30, 12:22*am, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
> On Dec 29, 4:10*pm, bildan > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 29, 3:22*pm, John Cochrane >
> > wrote:
>
> > > > Hype, hype and more hype in Bill Collums story, pure vapor-ware.
> > > > Going from a single layer of graphene molecules to a structural part
> > > > is not around the corner - unless its the corner of some distant
> > > > galaxy. *Remember buckyballs? *We were going to have string materials
> > > > of unbelievable strenght, space elevators everywhere to get payloads
> > > > for pennies into orbit, surely a hazard to soaring activities.
> > > > In my uneducated view graphene is an oddity for materials researchers
> > > > to mull over and write papers, nothing to see here folks, move
> > > > along...
>
> > > > Herb, J7
>
> > > Like Herb said, and time for the monthly complaint about Snoaring
> > > Magazine content. Graphene, and advice to use Lemon Pledge in the
> > > centerpiece story about how to clean your canopy. (Hint. Don't) In the
> > > meantime, nothing about how to fly better, what's going on with actual
> > > glider designs we might see in our lifetimes, new instruments under
> > > development, how to fly safer, racing techique, strategy, developments
> > > around the world, new airfoils, modifications and improvements,
> > > interesting places to fly or much else. If they just reprinted
> > > articles from S&G, Gliding international, and other sources it would
> > > be better.
>
> > > OK, the answer is stop crabbing and write. I'll pony up a contest
> > > corner if the rest of you send in some interesting articles!
>
> > > John Cochrane
>
> > I brought up the Pledge use with a plastics expert - he rolled his
> > eyes. *There's something in Pledge - possibly the oderants - which
> > accelerates crazing. *I've tried several waxing finish polishes for
> > canopies and the old standby McGuire's #10 (gray bottle) does the best
> > job of temporarily filling in scratches while protecting the canopy.
> > It should, it was designed for the USAAF in WW2 for exactly that
> > purpose with a refractive index exactly the same as acrylic.
>
> > Canopies are WAY too expensive to be experimenting with furniture
> > polish.
>
> At the risk of hijacking the topic, is McGuires #10 better than
> Plexus? (I just bought two cans at $23 each. *(The guy at the airport
> shop said the manufacturer recently doubled the wholesale price.)

I think so. #10 takes more work to rub it on and wipe it off but the
results seem better.

On Dec 30, 7:43*am, bildan > wrote:
> On Dec 30, 12:22*am, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 29, 4:10*pm, bildan > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 29, 3:22*pm, John Cochrane >
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Hype, hype and more hype in Bill Collums story, pure vapor-ware.
> > > > > Going from a single layer of graphene molecules to a structural part
> > > > > is not around the corner - unless its the corner of some distant
> > > > > galaxy. *Remember buckyballs? *We were going to have string materials
> > > > > of unbelievable strenght, space elevators everywhere to get payloads
> > > > > for pennies into orbit, surely a hazard to soaring activities.
> > > > > In my uneducated view graphene is an oddity for materials researchers
> > > > > to mull over and write papers, nothing to see here folks, move
> > > > > along...
>
> > > > > Herb, J7
>
> > > > Like Herb said, and time for the monthly complaint about Snoaring
> > > > Magazine content. Graphene, and advice to use Lemon Pledge in the
> > > > centerpiece story about how to clean your canopy. (Hint. Don't) In the
> > > > meantime, nothing about how to fly better, what's going on with actual
> > > > glider designs we might see in our lifetimes, new instruments under
> > > > development, how to fly safer, racing techique, strategy, developments
> > > > around the world, new airfoils, modifications and improvements,
> > > > interesting places to fly or much else. If they just reprinted
> > > > articles from S&G, Gliding international, and other sources it would
> > > > be better.
>
> > > > OK, the answer is stop crabbing and write. I'll pony up a contest
> > > > corner if the rest of you send in some interesting articles!
>
> > > > John Cochrane
>
> > > I brought up the Pledge use with a plastics expert - he rolled his
> > > eyes. *There's something in Pledge - possibly the oderants - which
> > > accelerates crazing. *I've tried several waxing finish polishes for
> > > canopies and the old standby McGuire's #10 (gray bottle) does the best
> > > job of temporarily filling in scratches while protecting the canopy.
> > > It should, it was designed for the USAAF in WW2 for exactly that
> > > purpose with a refractive index exactly the same as acrylic.
>
> > > Canopies are WAY too expensive to be experimenting with furniture
> > > polish.
>
> > At the risk of hijacking the topic, is McGuires #10 better than
> > Plexus? (I just bought two cans at $23 each. *(The guy at the airport
> > shop said the manufacturer recently doubled the wholesale price.)
>
> I think so. *#10 takes more work to rub it on and wipe it off but the
> results seem better.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Did you mean Maguire's #10 blue bottle?

On Dec 29, 2:50*pm, Greg Arnold > wrote:

> The editor of Soaring must be good at two things. *First, he must have
> wide contacts in the soaring community, and be interested in all the
> various topics that John describes above. *With that background, he can
> approach people for the articles that make for an interesting magazine.

I agree completely. It was a big reason John Good made such a good
editor during his time at Soaring magazine. He'd call me up and say
"Here's an idea for an article people would like to read, and you are
exactly the person to write it". How could I say no to that? And he
was doing that to other people, too. It worked.

An editor for a soaring publication can't just wait for articles to
appear, because there won't be enough good ones. The editor and the
editorial board needs to find out members want to read, and also
figure out what they should read, then actively seek articles on these
subjects. Many of these articles can and should come from well known
soaring people (the "usual suspects"), but it's absolutely essential
to actively seek and encourage new writers.

Doing this isn't as easy as sorting through what's been sent
unsolicited, but it yields a much better magazine, meaning one the
members really look forward to, and one that better serves the sport.
The editor can't be the only one twisting arms, either, but needs a
number of people with different interests (contests, clubs, technical,
etc) working with him, soliciting articles.

From the potential writer's viewpoint, the assurance that the article
will very likely be published makes the effort to write a good article
seem worthwhile. Without some assurance, a lot of people aren't
willing to go to the substantial effort it takes to write the article
in the first place. This assurance is particularly valuable to new
writers.

On Dec 30, 8:51*am, Eric Greenwell > wrote:
> On Dec 29, 2:50*pm, Greg Arnold > wrote:
>
> > The editor of Soaring must be good at two things. *First, he must have
> > wide contacts in the soaring community, and be interested in all the
> > various topics that John describes above. *With that background, he can
> > approach people for the articles that make for an interesting magazine.
>
> I agree completely. It was a big reason John Good made such a good
> editor during his time at Soaring magazine. He'd call me up and say
> "Here's an idea for an article people would like to read, and you are
> exactly the person to write it". How could I say no to that? And he
> was doing that to other people, too. It worked.
>
> An editor for a soaring publication can't just wait for articles to
> appear, because there won't be enough good ones. The editor and the
> editorial board needs to find out members want to read, and also
> figure out what they should read, then actively seek articles on these
> subjects. Many of these articles can and should come from well known
> soaring people (the "usual suspects"), but it's absolutely essential
> to actively seek and encourage new writers.
>
> Doing this isn't as easy as sorting through what's been sent
> unsolicited, but it yields a much better magazine, meaning one the
> members really look forward to, and one that better serves the sport.
> The editor can't be the only one twisting arms, either, but needs a
> number of people with different interests (contests, clubs, technical,
> etc) working with him, soliciting articles.
>
> From the potential writer's viewpoint, the assurance that the article
> will very likely be published makes the effort to write a good article
> seem worthwhile. Without some assurance, a lot of people aren't
> willing to go to the substantial effort it takes to write the article
> in the first place. This assurance is particularly valuable to new
> writers.

One of the things the Soaring magazine is almost consistently missing
out are articles on products; new or under development sailplanes,
radios, transponders, flight computers, maintanance products,
etc,etc,etc. Model avaiation publications do a much better job at
this. PeterK

On Dec 30, 8:43*am, bildan > wrote:
> On Dec 30, 12:22*am, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 29, 4:10*pm, bildan > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 29, 3:22*pm, John Cochrane >
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Hype, hype and more hype in Bill Collums story, pure vapor-ware.
> > > > > Going from a single layer of graphene molecules to a structural part
> > > > > is not around the corner - unless its the corner of some distant
> > > > > galaxy. *Remember buckyballs? *We were going to have string materials
> > > > > of unbelievable strenght, space elevators everywhere to get payloads
> > > > > for pennies into orbit, surely a hazard to soaring activities.
> > > > > In my uneducated view graphene is an oddity for materials researchers
> > > > > to mull over and write papers, nothing to see here folks, move
> > > > > along...
>
> > > > > Herb, J7
>
> > > > Like Herb said, and time for the monthly complaint about Snoaring
> > > > Magazine content. Graphene, and advice to use Lemon Pledge in the
> > > > centerpiece story about how to clean your canopy. (Hint. Don't) In the
> > > > meantime, nothing about how to fly better, what's going on with actual
> > > > glider designs we might see in our lifetimes, new instruments under
> > > > development, how to fly safer, racing techique, strategy, developments
> > > > around the world, new airfoils, modifications and improvements,
> > > > interesting places to fly or much else. If they just reprinted
> > > > articles from S&G, Gliding international, and other sources it would
> > > > be better.
>
> > > > OK, the answer is stop crabbing and write. I'll pony up a contest
> > > > corner if the rest of you send in some interesting articles!
>
> > > > John Cochrane
>
> > > I brought up the Pledge use with a plastics expert - he rolled his
> > > eyes. *There's something in Pledge - possibly the oderants - which
> > > accelerates crazing. *I've tried several waxing finish polishes for
> > > canopies and the old standby McGuire's #10 (gray bottle) does the best
> > > job of temporarily filling in scratches while protecting the canopy.
> > > It should, it was designed for the USAAF in WW2 for exactly that
> > > purpose with a refractive index exactly the same as acrylic.
>
> > > Canopies are WAY too expensive to be experimenting with furniture
> > > polish.
>
> > At the risk of hijacking the topic, is McGuires #10 better than
> > Plexus? (I just bought two cans at $23 each. *(The guy at the airport
> > shop said the manufacturer recently doubled the wholesale price.)
>
> I think so. *#10 takes more work to rub it on and wipe it off but the
> results seem better.

Plexus is nice for a quick clean just before a flight, especially if
the canopy is in good shape. Works nice for getting dust off the
inside (important out west) and for anti-static use.

That said, for an older canopy or occasional deep cleaning, someithing
like #10 is probably better, if more time consuming.

Kirk

On Dec 30, 9:29*am, PK > wrote:
> On Dec 30, 7:43*am, bildan > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 30, 12:22*am, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 29, 4:10*pm, bildan > wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 29, 3:22*pm, John Cochrane >
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > Hype, hype and more hype in Bill Collums story, pure vapor-ware..
> > > > > > Going from a single layer of graphene molecules to a structural part
> > > > > > is not around the corner - unless its the corner of some distant
> > > > > > galaxy. *Remember buckyballs? *We were going to have string materials
> > > > > > of unbelievable strenght, space elevators everywhere to get payloads
> > > > > > for pennies into orbit, surely a hazard to soaring activities.
> > > > > > In my uneducated view graphene is an oddity for materials researchers
> > > > > > to mull over and write papers, nothing to see here folks, move
> > > > > > along...
>
> > > > > > Herb, J7
>
> > > > > Like Herb said, and time for the monthly complaint about Snoaring
> > > > > Magazine content. Graphene, and advice to use Lemon Pledge in the
> > > > > centerpiece story about how to clean your canopy. (Hint. Don't) In the
> > > > > meantime, nothing about how to fly better, what's going on with actual
> > > > > glider designs we might see in our lifetimes, new instruments under
> > > > > development, how to fly safer, racing techique, strategy, developments
> > > > > around the world, new airfoils, modifications and improvements,
> > > > > interesting places to fly or much else. If they just reprinted
> > > > > articles from S&G, Gliding international, and other sources it would
> > > > > be better.
>
> > > > > OK, the answer is stop crabbing and write. I'll pony up a contest
> > > > > corner if the rest of you send in some interesting articles!
>
> > > > > John Cochrane
>
> > > > I brought up the Pledge use with a plastics expert - he rolled his
> > > > eyes. *There's something in Pledge - possibly the oderants - which
> > > > accelerates crazing. *I've tried several waxing finish polishes for
> > > > canopies and the old standby McGuire's #10 (gray bottle) does the best
> > > > job of temporarily filling in scratches while protecting the canopy..
> > > > It should, it was designed for the USAAF in WW2 for exactly that
> > > > purpose with a refractive index exactly the same as acrylic.
>
> > > > Canopies are WAY too expensive to be experimenting with furniture
> > > > polish.
>
> > > At the risk of hijacking the topic, is McGuires #10 better than
> > > Plexus? (I just bought two cans at $23 each. *(The guy at the airport
> > > shop said the manufacturer recently doubled the wholesale price.)
>
> > I think so. *#10 takes more work to rub it on and wipe it off but the
> > results seem better.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Did you mean Maguire's #10 blue bottle?
Been using Viagra?

On Dec 30, 10:07*am, "kirk.stant" > wrote:
> On Dec 30, 8:43*am, bildan > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 30, 12:22*am, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 29, 4:10*pm, bildan > wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 29, 3:22*pm, John Cochrane >
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > Hype, hype and more hype in Bill Collums story, pure vapor-ware..
> > > > > > Going from a single layer of graphene molecules to a structural part
> > > > > > is not around the corner - unless its the corner of some distant
> > > > > > galaxy. *Remember buckyballs? *We were going to have string materials
> > > > > > of unbelievable strenght, space elevators everywhere to get payloads
> > > > > > for pennies into orbit, surely a hazard to soaring activities.
> > > > > > In my uneducated view graphene is an oddity for materials researchers
> > > > > > to mull over and write papers, nothing to see here folks, move
> > > > > > along...
>
> > > > > > Herb, J7
>
> > > > > Like Herb said, and time for the monthly complaint about Snoaring
> > > > > Magazine content. Graphene, and advice to use Lemon Pledge in the
> > > > > centerpiece story about how to clean your canopy. (Hint. Don't) In the
> > > > > meantime, nothing about how to fly better, what's going on with actual
> > > > > glider designs we might see in our lifetimes, new instruments under
> > > > > development, how to fly safer, racing techique, strategy, developments
> > > > > around the world, new airfoils, modifications and improvements,
> > > > > interesting places to fly or much else. If they just reprinted
> > > > > articles from S&G, Gliding international, and other sources it would
> > > > > be better.
>
> > > > > OK, the answer is stop crabbing and write. I'll pony up a contest
> > > > > corner if the rest of you send in some interesting articles!
>
> > > > > John Cochrane
>
> > > > I brought up the Pledge use with a plastics expert - he rolled his
> > > > eyes. *There's something in Pledge - possibly the oderants - which
> > > > accelerates crazing. *I've tried several waxing finish polishes for
> > > > canopies and the old standby McGuire's #10 (gray bottle) does the best
> > > > job of temporarily filling in scratches while protecting the canopy..
> > > > It should, it was designed for the USAAF in WW2 for exactly that
> > > > purpose with a refractive index exactly the same as acrylic.
>
> > > > Canopies are WAY too expensive to be experimenting with furniture
> > > > polish.
>
> > > At the risk of hijacking the topic, is McGuires #10 better than
> > > Plexus? (I just bought two cans at $23 each. *(The guy at the airport
> > > shop said the manufacturer recently doubled the wholesale price.)
>
> > I think so. *#10 takes more work to rub it on and wipe it off but the
> > results seem better.
>
> Plexus is nice for a quick clean just before a flight, especially if
> the canopy is in good shape. *Works nice for getting dust off the
> inside (important out west) and for anti-static use.
>
> That said, for an older canopy or occasional deep cleaning, someithing
> like #10 is probably better, if more time consuming.
>
> Kirk

I don't think McGuire's #10 has any polishing or cleaning agents -
it's just a hard, clear wax carefully formulated to have exactly the
same refractive index as Plexiglass. It temporarily fills in
scratches and makes them disappear.

For actually cleaning and removing fine scratches, I like Novus #2 &
#3. These are actually ultra-fine abrasive cleaners which slowly
polish out scratches. Novus #1 wax doesn't seem quite as effective
and long lasting as McGuire's #10.

On Dec 30, 9:32*am, bildan > wrote:
> On Dec 30, 9:29*am, PK > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 30, 7:43*am, bildan > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 30, 12:22*am, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 29, 4:10*pm, bildan > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 29, 3:22*pm, John Cochrane >
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Hype, hype and more hype in Bill Collums story, pure vapor-ware.
> > > > > > > Going from a single layer of graphene molecules to a structural part
> > > > > > > is not around the corner - unless its the corner of some distant
> > > > > > > galaxy. *Remember buckyballs? *We were going to have string materials
> > > > > > > of unbelievable strenght, space elevators everywhere to get payloads
> > > > > > > for pennies into orbit, surely a hazard to soaring activities..
> > > > > > > In my uneducated view graphene is an oddity for materials researchers
> > > > > > > to mull over and write papers, nothing to see here folks, move
> > > > > > > along...
>
> > > > > > > Herb, J7
>
> > > > > > Like Herb said, and time for the monthly complaint about Snoaring
> > > > > > Magazine content. Graphene, and advice to use Lemon Pledge in the
> > > > > > centerpiece story about how to clean your canopy. (Hint. Don't) In the
> > > > > > meantime, nothing about how to fly better, what's going on with actual
> > > > > > glider designs we might see in our lifetimes, new instruments under
> > > > > > development, how to fly safer, racing techique, strategy, developments
> > > > > > around the world, new airfoils, modifications and improvements,
> > > > > > interesting places to fly or much else. If they just reprinted
> > > > > > articles from S&G, Gliding international, and other sources it would
> > > > > > be better.
>
> > > > > > OK, the answer is stop crabbing and write. I'll pony up a contest
> > > > > > corner if the rest of you send in some interesting articles!
>
> > > > > > John Cochrane
>
> > > > > I brought up the Pledge use with a plastics expert - he rolled his
> > > > > eyes. *There's something in Pledge - possibly the oderants - which
> > > > > accelerates crazing. *I've tried several waxing finish polishes for
> > > > > canopies and the old standby McGuire's #10 (gray bottle) does the best
> > > > > job of temporarily filling in scratches while protecting the canopy.
> > > > > It should, it was designed for the USAAF in WW2 for exactly that
> > > > > purpose with a refractive index exactly the same as acrylic.
>
> > > > > Canopies are WAY too expensive to be experimenting with furniture
> > > > > polish.
>
> > > > At the risk of hijacking the topic, is McGuires #10 better than
> > > > Plexus? (I just bought two cans at $23 each. *(The guy at the airport
> > > > shop said the manufacturer recently doubled the wholesale price.)
>
> > > I think so. *#10 takes more work to rub it on and wipe it off but the
> > > results seem better.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Did you mean Maguire's #10 blue bottle?
>
> Been using Viagra?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

NO! And I am not color blind either.http://www.detailing.com/store/
meguiars-clear-plastic-polish-8oz.html